彭博直播访谈重提Generac数据中心备用电源订单与AI数据中心融资压力

【实时直播转录 · Bloomberg TV+】
来源:Bloomberg TV+(bloomberg 直播间 btv_us) · 标题:Bloomberg TV+
时段:2026-08-05 04:30–05:00(Asia/Shanghai),共 158 段
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[04:30] So when you look at the demand for launch at the minute, most of SpaceX's launch is for its own service.
[04:30] So, you know, I guess the question is, is Elon going to be able to generate the demand downstream?
[04:30] To justify Starship launching as often and as much cargo as.
[04:30] So I think we lost shana's connection there, shanee, I do have one last question before.
[04:30] We let you go and this has to do with the idea of the singularity of what starship is and what it represents.
[04:30] You as a scientist, believe there could be any sort of meaningful competition to it right now falcon.
[04:30] for a while was the only game in town I assume assuming starship makes it on the timeline, it will be the only game on town.
[04:30] W, but there are a lot of other companies out there that think that they can actually be a player in this as well do you see the potential for real competition in this?
[04:31] It's really hard to say, I think, Elon Musk started really early and he got the full support of the US. government.
[04:31] And now he's been able to create essentially a monopoly in this space, it's going to be really, really hard.
[04:31] For a competitor to steal enough of that market share to make their own economics work. But again, let's not forget, Elon also.
[04:31] Created his own demand. So a competitor is not only going to have to steal market share from the Falcon or Starship.
[04:31] Vehicle, they're going to have to get really good at generating their own demand to make the economics work. And we still haven't.
[04:31] seen any of these actual economics from the launch services yet. If they were profitable, we probably would have heard this.
[04:31] Before, so we don't even know if this segment by itself is ever going to be profitable. And this will ultimately decide whether or not a competitor.
[04:32] W to compete for what is ultimately a loss exercise, really great to have you here, really insightful Sha osllivan.
[04:32] An economist and former senior researcher at the har Business Schools Institute for Strgy and competitiveness and worked at naSA the jet proppulsion.
[04:32] And other places there as we continue to watch our Spacex shares under pressure as the conference call gets off the downdraft in those shares in the after.
[04:32] trade dragging down some other names as well ad did come out with its earnings it did beat and it did actually guide slightly higher than estimates.
[04:32] There was a bit of concern about margins as well as the capex spend, those shares down about 8%, dell marvell, intel also moving lower.
[04:32] In sympathy as well, we do want to talk a little bit more about data centers and maybe data centers right here on Earth because that's still where we're building them.
[04:32] So we want to dive a little bit deeper into some of those capX figures that we just heard SpaceX, second quarter capex.
[04:32] actually below estimates while amds will above estimates john Mediina joins us right now senior vice president global project in.
[04:33] Finance over at Moy's rating All right, Johnhn, I mean, where do we stand right now because it seemed like if we spoke to you, I don't know a few months ago.
[04:33] And seems investors were pretty comfortable with all of the borrowing that was going on to build out these data centers, certainly in the last few weeks, there's been a bit of a rethink of that.
[04:33] We've started to see some spreads widening and I was just doing the math earlier today on the bloomloberg terminal, I mean, the majority, the vast majority.
[04:33] 75, 80% of the data center securities that have been issued since last year since the beginning of last year are now trading wider.
[04:33] Then at issuance, what does that tell you thanks remain that's a good question and part of it has to do I think with not.
[04:33] Just market changes, but also where we are in the timing of the year itself right so a lot of these new projects that came to market were in the first,
[04:33] the year, so a lot of new capital was deployed, a lot of new investors, and so that's hitting the secondary, that's hitting different markets, and so you're seeing that kind of work.
[04:34] way through the broader market and in the second half of the year, often those allocations are already allocated right so capital can become tighter.
[04:34] Rreads may widen just because people have already deployed what they were allowed to invest for the year in that one sector and so you'll see it kind of probably the same thing.
[04:34] And next year and the year after because we're looking at a multiple year build out cycle here, so I think the widening spreads and then tightening.
[04:34] Spread is probably going to continue for several years, just depending on the sentiment, but the trend moving forward in terms of the need for capital and the need for more.
[04:34] Capital will continue's what's that cost of capital, though look like going forward I think the cost of capital does.
[04:34] on the risk, you're seeing, I think, different names, you know associated with certain spreads, I think we are seeing a higher spread risk, you know, particularly there was oneD.
[04:34] They priced, I think it's seven and a half percent,7 and a half percent, you know, going out to 2045, a similar deal, you know was much an8.
[04:34] April also 7 and a half percent we've seen things in a 6% range recently a deal priced in over 9% right in terms of it's 10.
[04:35] Was it below investment grade tenant,, so those will price even wider, but usually data center ratings,, sorry data center spreads and credits.
[04:35] To be in the six and a half,7 and a half percent pretty consistently, they kind of go up and down and when you're outside of that range, there is a reason you a much lower risk.
[04:35] Or potentially higher risk Well with regards to some of the some of the debt deals, the collateralized debt deals, I mean, there has been a lot of talk about.
[04:35] The payments that you're making are relative to the repayments that you'll have to make on whatever revenue is generated from that.
[04:35] A lot of talk about the value of these GPUs declining and creating a mismatch with regards to what's being taken in.
[04:35] The value of what you have and the value of what you have to pay back so it's interesting in the GPU financings we are seeing an increase in.
[04:35] And you'll see some of those come to market soon as well, they are borrowing over a period of time that's within the lease that's coming with the hyperscalear.
[04:36] So five or six years, you're not seeing really an extension beyond that, but there is that risk of the data center that maybe has a 15 year lease.
[04:36] With that same tenant that only has a six year revenue lease, so they have to renew that or find another tenant, you know after that first five or six years.
[04:36] In order to continue to pay under their 15 year data center lease, that is that mismatch that you're talking about that we do see in some situations.
[04:36] What about the hidden risk a lot of people will say, okay, a lot of this is being done off balance sheet, you got SPVs, you got joint ventures.
[04:36] Track of how many circular deals are being made where nvidia sort of makes a quote unquote investment in this and then of course, obviously ends up collecting revenue.
[04:36] That company in return, how much of that can you accurately assess when trying to determine what the true?
[04:36] Credit value or credit or risk is when we're looking at these big companies, right while they do have these forwardly.
[04:36] unfulfilled liabilities, I think it's up to 1820 billion right now for the largest hyperscalers as of just about a few months.
[04:37] So a pretty large number, but that number also comes with revenue, so when we forecast forward, we forecast both the revenue and we look at that.
[04:37] Liability as well and a lot of the revenue growth we've also seen in recent earnings reports is increasing right because of this backlog of.
[04:37] For cloud services and other services are now being fulfilled so you're seeing even higher revenue growth that can cover that leverage that can cover that long term.
[04:37] those off balance sheet liabilities, and so I will say our analysts are all in touch with each other, are keeping track, are looking forward to what is yet to be,
[04:37] Reported because we are aware of what's under construction, but are also very conscious of the other side of that equation, it's not just a cost there.
[04:37] Revenue generation that is very much showing up now associated with these investments Johnhn always a pleasure John Mediina.
[04:37] You vice president of global project and infrastructure finance over at moody's ratings, keeping an eye on some of those debt financing deals to fund.
[04:38] Data centers, mean, our next guest is pushing headlong into data centers, a growing data center backlog of about $1.6 billion.
[04:38] On his book as his company expands to meet the power demand driven by aI ain yova is the chairman, president and ceo.
[04:38] Of Generac and he joins us right now, Aaronin, great to have you here on the program, anybody who thinks you're just you know the guy you go to when you need a generator.
[04:38] You know get yourself through a hurricane obviously hasn't been paying attention to your company, you've made a big pivot into the data center space you've gotten the certifications here.
[04:38] How much how big of a business do you think this can be for general thanks for having me on romaine.
[04:38] You're hitting the nail on the head here, a lot of people have thought of our company historically as kind of a consumer goods company in it, and we have been for 70 years selling generator.
[04:38] And backup power into that residential market primarily, but we've been growing a commercial and industrial business over the last 40 years.
[04:38] And in fact, over the last 10 years, we've pushed very hard into expanding that business, a number of acquisitions, and we just rolled out, as you indicated.
[04:39] product line that's geared directly towards a larger format backup for the data centers and it's going to be a big business, I mean, as you said, our backlogs.
[04:39] 1.6 billion already the last 90 days, we've recorded over a billion dollars in new business just in that know adding to that backlog.
[04:39] And we're working to triple our capacity there, we're trying to get close to $4 billion a year in capacity, and so I think when you step back what.
[04:39] We see in the future here is a company that's a lot better balanced, you know, between our residential business and our commercial and industrial business I mean you've talked about you and your executive.
[04:39] Its about a generational opportunity here that maybe you could even double your commercial business revenue in three to five years.
[04:39] But when I think about some of the large players, the large megawatt players, if you will, I think Catpillar, I think Cummins, I don't know, Roses Royce maybe.
[04:39] A few others here, are you able to compete with them now or is this sort of a ramp up to be able to be better more competitive?
[04:40] Yeah, those companies have been in this space for a lot longer than we have in terms of the high end of the product range that serves this end of the market.
[04:40] We're new to it,, but we've been in the commercial and industrial market backing up hospitals and backing up cold chain distribution centers and water treatment plants.
[04:40] for a long time, but this new product for us is going to compete head to head with those companies that you mentioned, and we're just bringing it online.
[04:40] This year we'll ship above $450 million worth of the product in that range, competing directly with those guys, and that's going to grow dramatic.
[04:40] In the years ahead, as you said, we had when we rolled out our investor day last in March, we said maybe we can double this side of our business.
[04:40] It's the commercial industrial side of our business, it actually looks and that was going to be a three to five year plan, it actually looks like we might do that next year so you know in terms,
[04:40] Just the uptake for this product line and the demand is incredible I mean, what are people using your generators for with regards to that?
[04:40] are they using it truly as backup or are we starting to see companies maybe run them kind of as bridge as a bridge until.
[04:41] Elect grid in those areas catches up with the actual buildout the products that we offer are specifically for emergency backup so grid.
[04:41] goes down or their prime source of power goes down, our generators start up and they take the place of that prime source of power and again.
[04:41] These are the same products that you would see on other types of commercial commercial applications, telecommunications, applications, hospitals and things like.
[04:41] So there are bridge power solutions that are needed, right, I mean, the grid interconnect queuees are growing at an incredible rate and so we've got a lot of.
[04:41] cent customers who are, you they're providing some other behind the meter power source initially, maybe turbines, maybe even reciprocating.
[04:41] you know, engine driven gen sets, but those are going to be temporary in nature, I think those ultimately these customers are going to want to be connected to the grid that's the you know,
[04:41] The lowest kind of cost way to get connected to the grid, most reliable source of power is going to be grid connected.
[04:42] You know backup power is an absolute must have in these applications, you've got to have five nines of uptime in you know any type of cloud compute or any type of.
[04:42] AI inference learning type of situation are you comfortable and I know right now you're so early kind of in this in this bill.
[04:42] Doub but I know you haven't named the customers, but it's still a small cohort of customers. Are you worried at all about some of the concentration risk with?
[04:42] to this new revenue that you're generating do you have confidence it will broaden we do, you know, as you mentioned, we've got two hyperscale.
[04:42] That we've inked deals with, those orders are going to be forthcoming and they're going to underpin a lot of our volume and our increase next year in 2.
[04:42] But we've also been adding colocators, so smaller data centers and when I say small, these are $100 million deals, $200 million,$300 million.
[04:42] DealSo in and of themselves, they're very sizable customers, but they pale in comparison, obviously to some of the hyperscale customers and in terms of what they.
[04:42] but obviously we want to broaden that out, you know, it's like the number one rule in anything in business is you don't want to have concentration of risk in anything inclusive of your customer.
[04:43] So there's going to be, you know there's a lot of developers out there, there's a lot of demand beyond the hyperscalers. We love the deals that we're putting together with these hyperscale customers, but the.
[04:43] are growing quite quickly as well you are by all intensive purposes, at least on Wall Street, pretty much valued now.
[04:43] Almost as an AI stock, but of course with that, and that's definitely benefited your stock, but of course with that comes a lot of volatility as you've seen.
[04:43] You're comfortable with that Well, I mean, I guess as comfortable as you can be with volatility in your stock I mean.
[04:43] up to 290 and then comes back down to 200 Today. It's up another $18 or whatever in one day. And you're right AI.
[04:43] Is choppy right I think there's a lot of things that are underpinning this in terms of the Capex spending you've been mentioning that on your program.
[04:43] And a lot of other programs haveve mentioned this as well, it 750 billion of Capex spending by hyperscalers in a single year, how sustainable is that?
[04:44] Over your skis, in terms of spending capex beyond your free cash flow generation, I mean, clearly, that's not sustainable, but does it go from $750 billion down to.
[04:44] 50 billion or is it something more like 400 billion on a go forward basis, I think there's a lot of things that that were pretty early innings here.
[04:44] In this build out story, but I can tell you that all the conversations we've had not only with the hyperscalealoid, but the developers themselves is that at least,
[04:44] The next five to seven years, what you're looking at here is a pretty massive build out, and I think that the AI trade while maybe choppy.
[04:44] The interim here I think over time, and you've seen this, you've seen what caterpiillars done, you've seen what Cs have done, you've seen what Generac's done, you've seen the returns here.
[04:44] I think that that's something you can look forward to for the near term Hey, Aaron really appreciate you joining us today, obviously fascinating.
[04:44] growthrow story here for genak we'll catch up with you soon i'm sureer yaf there the chairman president and CEO of a generaca.
[04:44] We continue to keep an eye on that conference call for SpaceX underway right now we are hearing from some of the executives on that call talking about.
[04:45] nearear term priorities in launching the mobile v2 satellites and of course, what goes on with starship joining us right now talk.
[04:45] bit more about this is Ed lud low, who i'm pretty sure has been listening in to that conference called I mean i've been saying this all hour.
[04:45] From last quarter are almost immaterial for a lot of folks out there, this is really about the long term story, of what are they articulating right now on the conference call?
[04:45] Yeah that all the business lines have momentum right there are some kind of operational updates, which is that you know right now SpaceX is,😊
[04:45] Benefiting a lot from the investment it made in its own data centers because it's renting out that capacity to third parties, namingly Anthropic and Google.
[04:45] And so the AI division, while the spending is concentrated there, it is allowed for some pretty positive numbers on the bottom line in isolation on that unit.😊
[04:45] And Musk is talking about that being the direction of travel, though end the year with two gigawatts of capacity installed and that they will continue to ramp up from that point.
[04:46] Orbital data centers, data centers in space are on track to launch next year, and they've gone with video as the exclusive compute provider.😊
[04:46] someth that broke just before the closing bell, but they basically explained they look at all the architectures and inous were the best so they went with it and that's a departure from their previous,😊
[04:46] Strategy where they said they'd look at all of the different compute platforms available, make reference designs and pick the best one, they picked the best one.
[04:46] Other than that, the thing we don't have, forward looking guidance, revenue, capital expenditures, but the CFOs talking Yeah, the CFO is talking.
[04:46] And hopefully we'll get some of those numbers on the capex side how much does that matter to investors i mean when i look at some of the plans that musk has laid.
[04:46] I mean, that sounds like that's going to cost a lot of money, but it doesn't seem like you have the same scrutiny over Capex that maybe we saw for the hyperscales.
[04:46] Some of the others, yeah, I mean, you know the liquidity position is they have $100 billion to play with right post IPO and what they did in the debt markets.😊
[04:46] The street thinks they'll say they'll spend $45 billion plus or minus this year. You know The compute side of it, what they're doing on earth.
[04:47] Well as what they hosted in space is expensive, you know AI is where the spending will be concentrated and it will impact supply chains right if they're going to be big.
[04:47] Spner on NviDdia compute, there is a Tesla exposure because of the joint direction with Terraab, that's their shed chip manufacturing.
[04:47] Initiative you know, the spending will matter, the level of it will matter all right there which point out that conference call.
[04:47] Still going on, you can type tiv on your bloomberg terminal to continue to see a live blog out that will continue with full coverage.
[04:47] On bloomberg television even into to balance of power, but as of right now you see the reaction in the shares in the post market here, SpaceX down.
[04:47] About7 percent this after reporting pretty much what we knew there is revenue growth, not necessarily profitability with the exception of the.
[04:47] OurLi business advanced micro devices they were also out with earnings, they did beat on several key metrics, their guidance relatively in line.
[04:48] But a few numbers came in light that conference call also underway those shares down about 7%, a lot of names in the broader AI space.
[04:48] Drag down we'll see if this flips into the cast session tomorrow morning at 930, but stick around right here on bloomberg television a lot more.
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[04:49] Kingdom this is a really interesting space to watch we're expecting more consolidation as this is Bloomberg deals at Bloomberg andInvest I want to talk.
[04:49] About the broader deal in M&A environment, this is a moment in time we'll see how long we're here it's far too early to call there an under.
[04:49] In what's going on in private markets, because everyone's looking for additional AI cloud capacity and it.
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